Not much to add except that my favorite 20" ride is a UFIP from a little later than that hihat pair. Still has the pyramid but no "made in Italy" stamp. I like old UFIPs in general. Please report back how they sound when you get them.

Steve

If it's a really nice sounding set, all I'd do to that one with the chip is take a rototool or some emery cloth and smooth/round off the edges of the chip so you don't cut yourself when you handle the cymbal. Other than that, it should play as well as it did before the chip happened.

John

Thanks John. I had considered doing something to the chipped cymbal. I'll try what you were saying.

Steve - I'll let you know how they sound. Are you saying that the pyramid plus made in Italy stamp predates the ones that don't have the made in Italy stamp?

Cheers

Al

Yes, that's my understanding but UFIPs are hard to date for sure.

Steve

So, these Hats arrived today. I saw the chip as described in the ad. That cymbal didn't sound too bad at all in fact. The other cymbal had me a bit stumped. When I hit it I heard a very dry, trashy sound. I couldn't understand how it could be making that sound. I could see no cracks and no abnormalities. These cymbals are very bendable, very thin and pliable. I was playing around with the aforementioned, trashy sounding cymbal. I was gently bending it in different areas and then I heard a tiny little pop and saw the little hairline crack that was making the cymbal sound that way. It was almost invisible to the naked eye so I can't blame the seller too much for not mentioning that, but I am none too happy about that. I'll have to do something about it. The sound is terrible. It'll have to be drilled out. I'll get the dremel to it.

Otherwise these cymbals sound great. Very thin and bendy as I was saying, nice pop off the bell and they have a very dark wash. They feel nice, just a pity about that crack.

Sorry to hear about the damage :( Maybe the good one can pair up with a different cymbal and sound nice? I have fun mixing hi hat cymbals around.

Steve

I had thought about that, unfortunately they're 15" and the only 15" hats that I have currently, so nothing to match them up with. I'm going get the dremel out and start cutting and grinding.

Yes as far as I know the Pyramid with Italy predates just the Pyramid, but I have no real evidence for that yet. I'll be writing to UFiP once I have the bare bones of a timeline up on my web site so they can have a look and comment. I don't want to pester them with 47 one at a time questions just yet.

I've got 2 rides from back then and they both show clear hammering with a smaller hammer face:

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/ufip-ride-1.jpg[/img]

I'm interested to see yours lack that, and they also have a gently sloping bell. That may be because they are hats. I've seen a few hats from the early period. Here is another pyramid and made in italy hat:

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/ufip-pyramid-hat.jpg[/img]

and yes, it doesn't have a steep sided bell -- but it does have those extra hammer marks. I note that often in the history of Italian Cymbal Companies there is mention of two lines: a more hand hammered one, and a simpler less hammered one. Maybe that's what we are seeing here. But I didn't know this distinction went back that far. I'm still just learning about things.

I also have a 20" ride from the next period (pyramid but no made in italy) and it looks more like yours in terms of bell shape. And it has no over hammering in that sharper hammer face style.

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/UFiP1s.jpg[/img]

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/UFiP3s.jpg[/img]

Other things:

Yes B20, but these predate rotocasting (as far as I can tell). They go back to when casting was done in vertical molds, called "the gravity method". Before 1975 UFiP were not using rotocasting, although the year has been hard to pin down. Luca Luciano says 1975 in his book Italian Vintage drums and cymbals, Agenda Publishing 2012, p130. In contrast, Hugo Pinksterboer in The Cymbal Book, p200, says

So it may be that rotocasting was in experimental use since 1964 but only went into full production a decade later or so. Luciano gives the date of filing for the patent as 1977 (p 130). Then there is also the subtle relationship between Zanchi and the UFiP collective which means that the rotocasting machines were available to UFIP without having the buy the rights, and in fact the machines may have been located in the UFIP factory during some or all of the R and D phase. My main concern is that these days sellers on eBay seem to automatically assume Pyramid stamp UFIP = rotocast when in fact the older ones are Gravity Cast. Does it really matter? Only if you are trying (as I am) to put together a proper timeline.

Do not overheat the metal when you work on them. Go slow and stop often. The chunk out of the edge is best done with just emory cloth. No power tools needed. And you can lose a chunk like that and it will have no discernible effect on the sound.

Does the other crack run along the lathe lines, or is it also on the edge?

Do not just cut down the 15" hats to 14" hats and expect them to be nice. You usually need to adjust the tension and the taper accordingly.

Oh, and I presume you know UFiP cymbals are metric? Since they are metric they will be more likely 380mm which is very close but not exactly 15". Just a tad under. The difference is more detectable on some sizes like 14" and 20".