This cymbal is not correct.

First, the "stamp" is not a stamp at all. It's been dremeled into the cymbal. Check the green inside the pattern cuts. That's not how cymbals oxidize or discolor. It's reactions are inconsistent with the rest of the cymbal surface area. The chemical timeline is off.

Second, the underside of the cymbal is showing a discoloration similar to the "stamp" cuts which tells me that it too has had some chemical work.

Third, the marker writing is not from a "Turkish" cymbalsmith. They would not spell it that way. Turkey is spelled "Turkiye" in Turkish. The writing is obviously Western cursive.

I don't care who chimes in on this one. There's no way I would ever be convinced this is an authentic Turkish K.

edit: double post

I don't think it's a K., but that doesn't mean it can't be a Turkish cymbal. In fact, most old cymbal were made in Turkey as far as I know. So, if it isn't a Turkish cymbal, then what else would it be?

And, second of all, it's not the size or type of cymbal that would be lucrative enough to go to that kind of trouble to fake. There's no way that's the result of a Dremel tool. As far as the oxidation goes, the oxidation could easily be set in the indents of that stamp and not be disturbed while the rest of the cymbal could be wiped down and/or cleaned several times over -thus making it entirely possible to have the inconsistencies in coloration.

Third, the marker could be there for any number of reasons. Maybe the previous owner was proud of the fact they had something made in the exotic land of Turkey. I have seen people write "Ludwig" in marker on bass drumheads, too. The marker is inconsequential and obviously not original.

Fourth, the seller is opening the bid at 99 cents! So, if they ARE the "real deal" so-to-speak, then only the people, in the know, are going to bid them up into the sky. People who don't do the proper research, first, take a gamble. If they are fakes or something, then no people, in the know, will bid and they will sell to someone for whatever they are willing to pay. It might be $20 or $200.

I've got a legit K Constantinople 13"-ish that looks just like those cymbals. It sounds kind of like "CLUNKSH" when it's hit! I won't sell it because it came with the old Ludwig Jr. kit I own. It was mounted on the bass drum rim and struck by the pedal attachment thingy. It has plenty of cracks in the bell to prove it, too! HA!

DOH!!!!Burger Kin

nevermindToilet

Hey O'Lugs. Howzit...

As far as the "stamp"...does your computer zoom in clearly? That thing has neon green in it. It's not your normal oxidation. The hammering around the bell looks odd. There's lots to this that really makes me think something's not right. It really really really does not look like an old K to me.

And I'm agreeing with you on that. I don't think it is an old K. I think it is an old, Turkish cymbal. It does look like an old K., though. That's because, essentially, all old cymbal of that vintage were hand-made, cast cymbals imported from....Turkey! The pictures are blurry, but I can tell they are hand hammered. That grommet is old, too.

As far as the neon green color goes: Did you see the color next to the cymbal grommet?

What I think happened was that there was a combination of "mysterious stuff" that has been on that cymbal over the years. Paint, different cleaners and polishes...who knows? There also appears to be some mysterious brown spatters on there, too. Maybe it was paint that got scraped into the indents and stayed there looking all green and stuff for all these years.

They are old cymbals and they are likely from Turkey and for all I kow, could have been hammered by the same guy that was hammering them for Kerope Zildjian. Drumholic will know what it is. Let's wait for his input on this subject.:Santa:

[COLOR="DarkRed"]mmmmmm...a few years ago....Drumaholic did a whole lotta research on these cymbals with that very stamp.

At first glance, it does look like a K Const. But that signature on the underside is sort of a joke...but it doesn't mean it's not a K, just means the sig isn't original.

I cannot remember if Drumaholic concluded these were REAL, early, early K Consts...or if they were Italian-made cymbals from the 20's-30's which were sorta made to look like Turkish ones.

....the answer is either a) or b)...I e-mailed him so maybe he'll chime in shortly....[/COLOR]

Check out the [IMG]http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/images/misc/navbits_finallink.gif[/IMG] Constantinople Pasha? thread. It has yet another goofball doing this. They cut INTO the cymbal just like this one to put a "stamp" onto it. If you can import these pics into a good photo program and blow it up and have the computer help to clarify the image, you will see that these are not pressed into the cymbal. These are cut into it.

For the record, that green is not natural. Unless the camera is doing strange things to those photos, these cymbals (the subject of this thread and the other thread) are not what they claim to be.

If that green was on the cymbal and the user treated it with a chemical to "change" it (which is the only way to remove it), it would have reacted within the "stamp" area, also. It would be very improbable that the user would have kept the chemicals out of the "stamp" area. This green is not your typical dirt and grime. It's not part of the patina. It's also not a simple tarnish. When a cymbal turns green, it's pretty serious. That is something that you have to treat, if you want to keep the cymbal for years and years. It doesn't stay localized. Any drummer (or chemist worth his salt) can tell you that this type of metallurgic reaction is not one that is going to stay contained with a "stamp". It spreads...sort of like a fungal rash, or an algae bloom. Anyway, it flat out would not be contained like this. It's not 'natural'.

It may "match" another pattern, but it is not real. You can see the sharp edge on the Pasha one clearly. This one has some tight edge, also. Look closely.

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. I'm not that kind of guy. But, it won't be because one person says I am, though. There needs to be evidence presented to sway me. This one is just too clear for me.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]McJ...that stamp comes up a lot, actually...I don't think it's a fake stamp..I think it's really a pressed stamp.

...the thing I dunno is if whether it is actually a Turkish stamp...or a faux-Turkish stamp....

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