I would normally just read this and go to the next thread, but you are shooting blind and a round just bounced off me.

It's only a dent that needs painting but I'll steer off saying this, You say you have been gigging for 3 decades, good for you, you love it.....I haven't gigged in 35 years, that doesn't mean I forgot how to do it. Recently started up trying jazz over a year ago and riding that bike again but not as I once did. (yet)

You're missing his points totally. He's the reason an old K can run $3,500 and not sit next to the cookies sheets in the oven and that also ensures preservation. So I see a business end of what Bill does now and a preservation Zildjian better appreciate and probably does because they didn't do it.

Calling out someone's playing is a sure sign you're taking on more water than you can pump out.

I'm going over the NNW horizon, try not to shoot that way.

Nobody has to prove themselves, here. We are all interested in drums and cymbals for whatever reasons.

Everyone has something to offer or ask about here so let's try and be understanding of that.

It's because I wasn't there anymore and their favorite hobby was attacking me. I have reason to believe that at least 3 of them were being paid by Zildjian to do just that. Two of them were Zildjian endorsers so I don't think it's just a conspiracy theory. After it was "mission accomplished" they soon disappeared completely. A coincidence? No, sorry but I don't believe in coincidences.

I was giving Zildjian a lot of grief at the time and they had ever reason to want me silenced, and so in pursuit of that goal they turned their goon squad loose on me so as accomplish that job for them. In fact one of them, Bruce Wittet even went so far as to admit that he joined there simply because he wanted to counter the anti-Z posts. I'm not sure if he was one of the paid mercenary group or not because he was actually the only good guy of the bunch. He and I conversed off-line and had some interesting discussions about trademark theory. He even sent me incredible photos of his own collection. Nevertheless, the fact still remains that he was one of those Zildjian endorsers. So it might have been part of a good cop/bad cop type of strategy; I don't know. But the rest were just out for blood. In fact once I simply brought up the old K. subject within another's thread and got attacked from at least 4 different people in 4 directions at once. Just for daring to mention Istanbul K's in context. And that little incident caused members Dee Pop and Mark Daus to quit the site after they both voiced their disgust over the incident.

But IVMike was a an outlier. He was simply a freelance drumaholic hater and nothing more. During those times when Cymbalholic temporarily was shut down I was on a few other sites (groovoligist was one and there were others) he continually followed me around from one site to another just like a little puppy dog nipping at my heels. Boy,... talk about going out of his way...With him it was just a spectator's sport. But after I was gone, the fun was over for him and he then just disappeared.

I'm not going to get into the middle of all this, but I want to add that Cymbalholic was less enjoyable for me after you were gone. There seemed to be a palpable tension which was pervasive in discussions of vintage cymbals. There was also a lot more guessing going on. I think some folks felt uncomfortable even mentioning your name. You had become a persona non grata. I never did fully understand why you were booted. I know that you were perceived as a bit difficult at times, and you don't mince your words, but I just attribute that to being one of your charms. ;)

Why thank you! That's one of the nicest things that anybody has ever said to me.

Just don't get a swelled head about it. it's also probably one of the last nice things that anybody will ever say about you. ;);)

Zen,....I mean Zing !!

Man, I was a member of CH since the olden days (pre-1st-shutdown), and I don't remember any of this drama. Just enjoyed the cymbal discussions and analysis, and learned a lot (and bought a little, and sold a little). As for all this other stuff, I guess it's just like in my social life, it seems I'm always clueless, the "last to know" :)

Gosh, you missed the funnest part then. But if you want a sample of what it was like just read back a few posts to where EDL comes in and you'll get a pretty good feel for it. There you'll find a clear example of the inane and clueless arguing that was mostly aimed at me, and what was wrong with cymbalholic.

But on the other hand one of the pet peeves that I ranted about against the big-Z was that their cymbals were all too heavy. Now I can understand that in the context of rock cymbals, which are the lion's share of their market. But so were their new (at that time) K. Constantinople series which were purportedly aimed art the jazz players market. Then guess what happened after that? Just a few years later they started making the Constantinople line thinner and continue to do so today.

Coincidence you say? Well, I already told you how I feel about coincidences. But suffice it to say that I think they got the message.

For most people things were not really bad there. It's just that a bunch of personal issues and personal perceptions from over the years are getting hashed up in this one thread, and you're seeing the condensed version of the story of St George and the Dragon, er... I mean Cymbalholic and the Dragon, er... I mean Cymbalholic and the Drumaholic :) Just a couple of aging 'holics fighting it out to the bitter end. :)

It's unfortunate that it digresses from JDA's main purpose which was to inform us of Cymbalholic's imminent demise, but it's not surprising that things went in this direction.